Friends of the Cumbres & Toltec - FriendsOfCumbresToltec.org

September 2012

not much there to show what once was. Tks.

Tom C.

ps. u r everywhere!

Tom Casper wrote:
ps. u r everywhere!

I try to get the MOST out of my vacations!

I hope the "Friends" one day put a replica of the Toltec Station House back at the same location as the original. The namesake of our railroad needs to be identified.

Great idea Craig!

Tom C.

BTW Craig, according to Terry Ross, the name Cumbres (was for Cumbres Pass the highest point on the R/R), and Toltec (was for Toltec Gorge, the lowest point on the R/R).

Craig Kumler wrote:I hope the "Friends" one day put a replica of the Toltec Station House back at the same location as the original. The namesake of our railroad needs to be identified.

I couldn't agree more, but I'll take it a step further. I think the replica Section House should be fitted out with a well/pump and solar power for camping. Then the Friend's could rent it out. I'd do that every year! That's an isolated and beautiful section of the railroad. Would love to spend some time there decompressing from the rat race of the big city. Plus, a hot lunch at Osier is just a short hike away.

For what it's worth, I think the same thing could be done for the Big Horn Section House and maybe Cresco.

"All it takes is warm strong bodies and cold hard cash". At the risk of starting a subject that will have strong feelings on each side, I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to have a developer work out something where the project would meet historical requirements, pay the developer a reasonable profit and be set up as a revenue source for the railroad/Friends.

The "Camp Car" on the D&S was sold out years in advance. They only stopped running it because of a problem with bears. Sure seems to me like this could turn into a major profit center for the Friends/Railroad. Like you said, Rich, just takes cash to get started.

These are great ideas for revenue for the RR/Friends. Is there someone/group that should be approached with this idea? I'm sure someone/group would know how to pursue this idea and possibly could do a feasibility study. It would also hopefully benefit the rr. having these bldgs. occupied so they would not be as vulnerable to vandalism. I know there would be upkeep & servicing issues but I'm sure they could be worked out.
Any other suggestions/ideas?

Allan

How about this idea. We already have the section house, carman's house on Cumbres Pass. The section house has a ADA compliant front door and a tub/shower already installed. We can build a re-creation of the log bunk house to the west of the section and install a generator and battery bank to run LED lighting most of the time. Since the log bunkhouse is a re-creation, it can house the water treatment equipment we will be required to have as well. Just needs to look 'historic' outside.

Now since I worked at Sublet this summer, I 'discovered' there is a BIG section house already built and only need interior work to have it ready for humans instead of rats. There are two other buildings as well that can be renovated for a fraction of what it will cost to put the Big Horn buildings back. Having spent a week there I can assure you the area is incredible and there is a 'little narrow gauge train' that stops at your doorstep twice a day to take on water. There is a road that you can use if you don't take the train in. How can you beat that?

I like it. It's simple.

When do we start?

What great ideas. I hope others will come up with more creative ideas.
It was mentioned that a camp car was in use previously. Would moving it to different locations on a regular basis help with the bear problem?
Is it possible to have more than one such car?
Keep the ideas coming.

Back in the late 1990's when the Commission was restoring the Osier and Cumbres section houses the plans were based upon having the operator (George Bartholomew) offer lodging accommodations in those buildings, as one can tell from some of the renovations that were done, but other problems with running the railroad obviously took precedence.

But what about the basic idea of the C&TS promoting lodging of some kind along the line? To begin with one might want to ask Kim Smith Casford about the practicalities of offering what amounts to motel accommodations with minimal kitchen and bathroom facilities at remote locations w/o water, electricity, septic, phone service, etc. Having been C&TSRR GM and a motel owner as well, she knows the potential operating difficulties -- for instance, just providing laundered sheets, towels, and minimal clean-up services pose logistical problems.

Back in the early 2000's we did try to work out an arrangement with a family that owned quite nice lodging facilities up above rock tunnel (meet the guests at Osier, use the section house for registration, transport them by car, wagon, or horseback to the lodge, etc.), but impediments like those mentioned above were just too great (ever try to make a phone call from Osier?).

Still, not to say that some enterprising outfitter might be able to provide a unique back-country camping experience out of Osier some day.

Dick, I completely understand your concerns. This experience simply wouldn't be for everyone. In my mind, the train would haul the bedding, food, and all other necessary gear out there. A satellite phone for emergencies could easily be acquired and included in the price. Of course, the requisite waivers and other legal forms would leave the renters on their own with no fault to the railroad. At the end of the stay, the renters would be responsible for cleaning up and ensuring that all gear and trash gets aboard the train. A hefty deposit could ensure this is adhered to.

It would not be your typical hotel stay, but it's certainly do-able with a little imagination. And, since the regular train would be dropping off and picking up the renters, you've got a built-in marketing mechanism.

Potable water? Power? Potty? Kitchen? Better to use an outfitter. BTW, camping out along the ROW was what we did back in the '90's above Sublette during projects there -- but we had the benefit of a complete set of river rafting gear to draw from.

Dick Cowles wrote:Potable water? Power? Potty? Kitchen? Better to use an outfitter. BTW, camping out along the ROW was what we did back in the '90's above Sublette during projects there -- but we had the benefit of a complete set of river rafting gear to draw from.

Potable Water: Well and/or haul in by train
Power: Solar
Potty: Outhouse? It worked for hundreds of years...
Kitchen: Coal stove or electric power from solar panels
Showers: Cumbres & Sublette have water reservoirs that might be used for this

Like I said, this certainly isn't for everyone. But, I'm betting there will still be a long waiting list.

I voiced a similar idea a while back about camp cars like the D&S used. These would be self-contained campers built into a boxcar that could be set-out at remote sidings. Might be an easier method than modifying a Section House. Sidings at Toltec, Toltec Section House (would need to be rebuilt), Big Horn, Lava Loop, Sublette, Cresco, and Osier would be fantastic spots to camp out.

Don't know about cell phone service in Osier Dick, but I rarely had problems with getting a signal in Sublette. I was talking to Joanie in Calif. while on the roof of the section house. How remote can you get than that?

Electricity wouldn't be a problem Jason, years ago Bob Tully had me buy two gov surplus 10kw generators with something like 18 hours on them. I have them over at my auto shop class and run them every few months to keep them up.

The plan was to put one in each of the coal bunker sheds on Cumbres and Sublette. You add a battery bank, charger and inverter and LED lighting and I doubt you would need to run the generator more than an hour a day to charge things up. Then we would have power to run a water treatment plant, and with the cistern for the train already there, a gravity flow water system would be easy.

People are looking for remote and unusual places to stay, and once the word gets out, it would be easy to rent out. The biggest problem would be having someone to administer and oversee the operation.